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28/06
10/04
04/03
Follow the link below where you'll find some of the necessary responses to the application. You will also find a "concern" from Richard Day listed.
I know Rich is regular on Nottsview so it would be interesting to understand the route of his concerns, is it:
the impact on West Bridgford, or
the impact on the existing pavilion?
If it's the latter, then I don't think that there's much to be concerned about in my opinion as the proposal is fairly sympathetic to the existing building whilst doing the necessary job of bringing the building, up, fit for the twenty-first century. It's not a listed building and so has never before been regarded as unique or of any significant architectural importance before.
Look at what is listed in the same vicinity:
Major works planned at Trent Bridge cricket ground's pavilion to ensure future of Test matches
Joshua HartleySenior reporter for Nottinghamshire LiveNottinghamshire County Cricket Club has applied to demolish and extend the iconic Trent Bridge ground's Members' Pavilion in order to keep its status as a Test match venue
Plans to safekeep Nottinghamshire's iconic Trent Bridge cricket ground by overhauling its pavilion have been brought forward. Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club has applied to partially demolish and extend the world-famous Trent Bridge ground's Members' Pavilion in order to keep its status as a Test match venue.
The club has said that without improvements, which include upgrades to player and official facilities, the future of major match allocations for 2025-2031 would potentially be at risk. Planning documents submitted to Rushcliffe Borough Council argue that despite the ground's international prestige, the current pavilion has "long failed" to meet the standards required.
Planners explained the space and quality of the building, which dates from the 1880s, and level of wheelchair access fell significantly short of the expectations of the England and Wales Cricket Board, which is the governing body of the sport. The ground’s oldest building and most significant heritage asset had been negatively impacted by previous changes and additions, they added.
The project aims to future-proof the pavilion, which is presently in a poor condition and has "significant maintenance issues". Whereas the current structure is three floors, the improved one would be six floors and have a basement level, allowing for the more spacious facilities needed for the increasing size of teams and their support staff.
Fully unisex changing spaces and an ability to accommodate teams, training staff and officials of both genders within the facility concurrently, is also planned. The proposed facility will also be the first in the country to offer a four-team split of changing facilities that are fully self-contained for double header matches.
Creating spaces for player and match official welfare, as well as more space for kit and equipment, has also been said to be an important consideration. In planning documents, Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club said the ECB were "highly satisfied with and supportive of the proposals".
To realise the club's ambition, "significant levels of demolition" would be needed to make the space for the proposed new-build areas. The pitch-facing elements, which are the original parts of the building, would be preserved but more recent rear extensions would be demolished.
A site visit and meeting was arranged with key planning and conservation officers from Rushcliffe Borough Council ahead of the plans being submitted, which gave the authority a chance to examine the condition of the building and understand the development needed, Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club said. The organisation added the continued hosting of Test matches at the ground, for which the redevelopment was needed, brought millions of pounds in economic benefits to Nottingham and Nottinghamshire.
In a planning document, Letts Wheeler Architects on behalf of Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club, said: "Although the building will undergo a significant amount of demolition and expansion much of this will occur in areas that have already been substantially altered from the original design, with key features having already been lost. However, the level of alteration and expansion would constitute a level of ‘less than substantial harm’ in conservation terms.
"Set against this are the clear and obvious public benefits of the proposal. Firstly, providing the facilities that will enable Trent Bridge to retain its status as a major venue for international cricket, with all the benefits this brings to the area. Secondly, retaining the Pavilion’s historic role and significance in the ground and creating a new landmark building, which restores the pavilion to being the primary architectural focus at the Ground." The planning application is pending consideration by Rushcliffe Borough Council.
shame as it's one of the nicest features of Trent Bridge
ReplyDelete80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteWow!
Increase in height from 3 floors to 6 floors . That’s a major change all right!
Look forward to seeing the plans if permission to re build is granted . Sounds a very costly project but Notts have no choice really . Things simply couldn’t stay as they are now . It will certainly alter the character and perspective of the ground itself . I wonder if the work required would start at seasons end ( Sept) ? Could the rebuild be done in time for the start of the 2025 season ?
It obviously involves massive changes all round . Will the Notts Membership be allowed an input I wonder?
The final of many straws for me. See "future proofing" gamers another run out. This lot destroy cricket and the English language.
ReplyDelete"gamers", well if they can talk tat, so can me ! (Irony ?)
ReplyDelete2 more bits please.
ReplyDeleteWould a 6 story building not cast a shadow across the square ? Sun is behind, and currently above the pavilion for 2 to 3 hours during day time matches.
Letts Wheeler seem to trying to counter any listed building claims. But would their case stand up to English Heritage scrutiny ?
Civil Parish - 1045636
ReplyDeleteTRENT BRIDGE PAVILION; Grade: II ; List Entry Number: 1045636 ; Date first listed: 31-Oct-1972 ; List Entry Name: TRENT BRIDGE
The list entry number you quote refers to Trent Bridge, the bridge, and not to the pavilion at the cricket ground (https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1045636). The pavilion is not Grade II-listed.
DeleteDJP
Correct DJP. The project would be a whole cheaper if they cleared the old building and built a soulless red (or perhaps green) box as at old t. Is that what the doubters would prefer?
DeleteSimply have nil choice to do something- we make a substantial loss every year we don’t host a test match, even with the Hindred and up to 2 white ball internationals still a huge loss each time
ReplyDeleteBut seems an expensive project for say 7 days of cricket a year.
Why oh why, did we waste all that money 💰 on the seemingly I’ll fated restaurant Six project I wonder 💭?
I agree Doctor . I suggest you ask the Chief Executive
Delete80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteHad a quick look at front , back and side elevation plans for the “ new” Pavilion . First impression is very favourable . A lot of detailed thought has gone into the work plans and the brickwork detailing and re-use of existing red tiles etc is pleasing . I can well see the finished product complimenting the Rad Road complex . Think it will balance the ground up a bit .
Reduced light during playing hours could well be a drawback . Bowlers might be happy if the high structure makes the ball swing about more? You cant tell in advance of course. The increase in height from 3 floors to 6 could well alter things on the pitch .
From what I have seen and heard so far I would give the proposed plans as mark of four out of five .
What do others think ?
It's intriguing to see any benefits for members or supporters couldn't see any indication of increase in seating in fact it looks like it's appeasing all that the ECB require & that Changes every year
ReplyDeleteNo income stream all at a very expensive burden for the club to take on & Notts have a very poor record of delivering projects on time & on budget this will be a very difficult
Project to achieve from the outset & no mention of costs & where the money is coming from & at what cost
A few comments: front elevation looks fine, a good compromise between the traditional characteristics and need to expand/modernise, the old executive suite is much reduced in size - about 50 seats and a standing terrace = less income, the library moved to the ticket office seems small, smaller than the room called 'The Blaze'; 2 multi-faith rooms?; the increaed height is a big change. Much improved for players but not for members. This will be VERY expensive and certainly will not be done in one winter.
ReplyDeleteA few more comments: Where are the committee going? They don't appear in the plans. Both balconies on each side are for players (home on the 'committee' side). The 1st and 2nd floor plans show 4 changing rooms - how many days cricket involve 4 teams?
ReplyDeleteI never thought I'd read a comment from someone worrying about the poor committee.
Delete80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteREF THE VANISHING COMMITTEE ROOM .
Perhaps the Notts Committee and their match leisure days will be held in the SIX Restaurant? It has a well stocked bar , a great view, a Chef on hand from time to time,and well away from perhaps critical plebs.
Whisky stocks will be low after next week.
Delete1860 Trent Bridge Pavilion.
ReplyDeleteWhy do players need a 6 story building to get changed and showered in ?
https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/circa-1860-the-old-pavilion-at-trent-bridge-nottingham-news-photo/78976487
Nothing for the members in this plan
ReplyDeleteAll about pandering to the ICC & ECB
& there ridiculous requirements
Looks like the committee & the presidents
Rooms will disappear into the skip also looks like the executive suit is going to
Be discontinued passed over to players
& backroom staff' the committee Will relocate for there monthly meetings to
Wetherspoons' a lot of questions to be
Answered as this could turn out to be a very difficult project to achieve in the time
available
80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteYou cannot stand still in business! Notts ccc IS A BUSINESS - a big business !
Other large cricket venues have taken the plunge and spent many millions in order to offer first class facilities and customer experience . This is something the ECB will look at closely when awarding future lucrative fixtures . Notts have to move with the times - or else!
The new Pavilion design certainly will not please everybody .
but it maintains the character of the current pavilion (in my opinion) which is surely better than a red box!
Delete80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteOne thing is certain !
Doing nothing is NOT an option .
I have been going in and out of the TB Pavilion for decades. It’s become woefully inadequate. I think the new development plans herald an exciting time ahead . I am sure the whole project will be tastefully done . Anyone hazard an informed guess as to the total cost and time span from start to finish . Not to mention raising the necessary finance!
This new build will have to last 50+ years . Notts may as well get the whole project right and try to anticipate future requirements. Its no longer showers and toilets for males and females . There appear to be a fair number of “ don’t knows” at the moment which will complicate matters and add to the total cost .
Yes, very odd to put forward a plan without any costing or timescale. These must exist if they have applied for planning permission.
DeleteNo mention of costs' the club will have to take on a large amount of debt to fund this project
ReplyDeleteThe devil will be in the detail as always
My issues is that the club have a very poor record bringing projects to fruition on budget
That will be the argument for backing the ECB's selling off the H*ndred franchises and spending that cash. Up grade the pavilion they say to accommodate both sexes: for Rocket double-headers more likely, as we're never going to have Test double-headers.
DeleteSpeak to one of the committee members about costs as i have
DeleteThe wall of silence has been breached - get that as a headline Nottsview quick
DeleteHumble apologies. The Listed Building ref I found was for Trent Bridge the Bridge, though I did Google cricket ground. It did not specify what it was. English Heritage website is a nightmare. Seems our pavilion is not a listed building, or at least I can find no evidence it is. Lady Bay Cricket Pavilion is !
ReplyDeleteIs this the real problem for Test cricket at Trent Bridge ? How does the project improve this ?
ReplyDeleteGround capacities, English Test grounds
Lord's 31,100
The Oval 27,500
Old Trafford 26,000
Rose Bowl, Southampton 25.000
Edgbaston 23,803
Headingjey 18,350
Trent Bridge 17,000
ECB set the priorities and getting a pavilion that fulfills the requirements of 21st century test cricket was the set priority. Capacity is not an issue at this time.
DeleteVery good point & all the above grounds are already extending ground capacity for fans & hospitality' the TB project doesn't offer
DeleteAny new seats for fans so no extra income for the club not a good financial strategy going forward
If international match prices continue to rise I predict smaller attendances anyway
DeleteYet another pitch side asset/development at Trent Bridge that fails to increase the number of paying seats by any meaningful amount. Way above the members area there is a floor that shows standing room and a bar and is labelled hospitality. The Executive Suite goes as does the Committee Room. The former generated significant income for the club - especially in Test Match years but that space goes in favour of two players lounges (there will be two suites of changing rooms occupying the current block and the scape vacated by the Committee Room). Plus, a variety of necessary, match day functions that I know we cannot do without these days. Much of this could have been at the back of the pavilion, allowing paying visitors to enjoy one of the best views of Test Cricket anywhere? Meanwhile, the office block next door has excellent views of the playing arena yet is given over to administrative functions....
DeleteThanks, that really surprises me.
ReplyDeleteTends to reinforce the dominance of player power even over the game making money ?
Unlikely to end well.
IMHO.
All for better wheel chair access, but a 6 story building, reaching out to where squash court complex now stands, to achieve that ?
ReplyDeleteNo idea what "rear extensions" there have been in recent years . What are they talking about ?
ReplyDeleteActually a 7 story building, as new basement. Crazy !
ReplyDeleteand how many floors are there at the moment? G (umpires hideaway), 1 Long room, 2 Away Dressing room 3/ Home Dressing room 4/ Upper seating and Mick Newell's eyrie but is there also a cellar? That would be 6 floors, so not much of an "up" grade.
DeletePavilion set to double in height :
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Fimageserver%2Fimage%2F%252Fmethode%252Ftimes%252Fprod%252Fweb%252Fbin%252F41cfeb2b-7907-41de-b53a-743db9866fb8.jpg%3Fcrop%3D1600%252C900%252C0%252C0%26resize%3D1200&tbnid=Jx6fAKprEcUCsM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Farticle%2Ftrent-bridge-pavilion-to-double-in-height-to-secure-grounds-test-future-qx3mgq5t2&docid=D6WRuvyg33G8zM&w=1200&h=675&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F2&kgs=7d3acf7f6e7fd045&shem=trie
One extra floor isn't doubling the height.
DeleteTB is very limited space wise with any refurb, it appears the only way is UP as the song 🎶 by Yazz goes
ReplyDeleteI thought 💭 our smaller ground capacity would be a major problem in being allocated plum International matches and last season was the start of things to come for us. But clearly not at present, the major match allocation was kind to us and until money 💰 is no object, this project has to over ride any other project to increase capacity
The club has no choice in this whatsoever - unfortunately ?????
As a general rule, in a members sports club, the members are liable for debts, if that club goes bankrupt.
ReplyDeleteNotts CCC rules may say otherwise, and it is unlikely, even if club gets into heavy water with debts. But it is a thought. Anyone know the club rules on this ?
In reality, the ground would be sold, I guess.
I’m not coughing up for Olly Stone’s wages that’s for sure !!!!
ReplyDelete80 NOT OUT . Hope Olly is not badly crocked . But if he is out of action for the whole Notts 2024 season then he should do the decent thing and terminate his contract and save Notts shelling out £100,000+ for virtually no return .
ReplyDeleteThis is certainly ambitious but the plans as formulated represent (in my opinion) a missed opportunity as they won't increase ground capacity (paying spectators). Indeed, the Executive Suite will go, robbing the ground of one of the best views in English cricket. There is another missed opportunity in the admin block that occupies potential paying member/visitor real estate at the end of the New or, Smith Cooper Stand... Surely the admin could be undertaken from premises elsewhere (the squash courts?) I recall the Executive Suite being fully subscribed with circa 100 iNternational Members who, before Covid, were paying something around the £900 mark for the privilege. I fully realise the needs of the ECB and ICC but I wonder if another solution might not be found, one that would seek to maximise revenues as well as meet the requirements of the authorities?
ReplyDeleteReally about balance, the case for has dominated so far. I do not like the new plans, and love the pavilion as it is, but that is an opinion. Mostly I think it is a massive waste of money. The "Test" counties have spent and are spending massively for 4 to 5 days of near full houses a season, sometimes no Test at all. Test cricket is in deep trouble, NCCC are investing big time in a declining market. But I accept the process, the council must decide. But no public money, not for a private club in these times.
ReplyDeleteIt is not a listed building.
ReplyDeleteBut it is very special to many, to me, to people I have lost. It is the only part of the ground that is still there, from when I first walked into the ground with my Dad in 1965.
I used to enjoy Trent Bridge. One area that needs huge redevelopment is the pavilion. Let's be honest nostalgic yes. But awful.
ReplyDeleteTaken for granted and neglected, much like the members are, you might say.
DeleteI support the plans but I am sympathetic to Rich's comment about the club only having one business model.
ReplyDeleteThere is a big underlying risk here: decline in test cricket. I could see a situation where the club goes into £10m debt all to be repaid from test match ticket sales, only for the volume of test matches to decrease.
Basically, the club is very exposed to the future of if the format
Spotted :)
DeleteI am also sympathetic to Rich’s point of view and concerns as well
ReplyDeleteIt does seem strange that although a necessity to keep TM’s etc at TB for however long that is - nobody actually knows with that one, the refurb itself doesn’t seem to be another revenue stream for for club which would justify the outlay in addition to keeping TM’s at the ground
Assume the hierarchy looked at this issue and presumably the cost would be just too prohibitive or there’s not the logistics for this - or a combination of both ??!
Perhaps a sell-out drone display will pay for all development plans
DeleteOr a Robbie Williams rip off show
DeleteThe Victorian pavilion needs bringing into the modern era, there's no place for sentimentality, delays have already cost the club money owing to the rampant inflation in the construction industry post-pandemic.
ReplyDelete80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteRICH , from your posts on here it’s obvious you are a long time supporter of Notts ccc . Older people often prefer for things to stay as they are . Going back to the days when your Dad first took you down to Trent Bridge may give a past vision through rose coloured spectacles!?. I also was a regular in the 1960s at the Bridge .Remember the dirty , smelly , gents toilets block ? ( roofless)
Plus the rows of pretty uncomfortable green painted hard wooden benches for the faithfull to sit on? Plus the old “covers” that took ages to roll on and off during rain breaks ? Not forgetting the poor ground drainage when a hard shower meant pools of water on the outfield and play finished for the day even though the sun might be shining an hour later!
Sorry mate - the current Pavilion is hopelessly out of date! The new plans are essential to the Clubs survival at the top level . It will cost a lot of money - but it will be money well spent.
I for one cant wait to sit in the finished product .
PS I would imagine there will be surplus items no longer required when parts of the Pavilion are demolished . I wonder if these items will be auctioned off and thus create a bit of extra revenue for the Club ?
Mick Newell's eyrie would make a lovely shed for someone.
DeleteGood points right through. Still do not see how it is necessary to create a 6 story building to achieve a more functional and comfortable pavilion. Current building is very large. Must be scope to do major internal refit at much lower cost. And what is the cost ? To do any, even non sentimental, cost/benefit judgement, cost needed. Is there anywhere cost estimate published ?
ReplyDeleteTimescale ? Disruption to the community ?
Essentially Rich that is what this project is, a refit, and is certainly not a rebuild (which would probably be a cheaper option). The current structure is five floors already or six if there is a cellar, so the new look pavilion isn't going to be that much taller! Building an extra floor above the current committee rooms is an obvious route to take and gives the over all structure symmetry and is more aesthetically pleasing than the current "dog's breakfast design".
Delete80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteI dread to think how much the Pavilion redevelopment will cost !? I haven’t seen any figures from anywhere . Perhaps too frightening to publish . A wild guess from me would be £10- £15 million !? Surely not any more than that . Probably financed over 20- 30 + years ?
Ref flogging off surplus Pavilion momemtos . I am putting my marker down for the old brass bell that is rung 5 minutes before the start of play !
Only joking - - cant think for a minute that an historic item like that will be offered for sale .
80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteWhilst Notts are thinking of shelling out millions on a Pavilion upgrade then why not go the whole hog and bring County Hall into the equation . It’s now redundant and apparently on the market . How Notts could use an on site ( virtually) hotel . What an amazing hotel County Hall would make . A real money spinner for Notts !? . Not forgetting the vast amount of parking space that Notts Members and spectators are crying out for .
Food for thought . Notts need a rich benefactor
A VERY RICH BENEFACTOR!
Great debate !
ReplyDeleteAccording to The Times, the pavilion is to double in height. To me it is 3 floors and a bit now, but I can see that depends on interpretation of what is a floor/story(aka storey). There is also a mini basement now, but plans seem to allow for a much bigger scale basement. Cannot see how refit within current curtilage could be anything but cheaper than partial demolition and extension.
Have confirmed, current building is officially 3 floors, plan is for 6 floor building. And larger basement too.
ReplyDeleteWhatever views, fine, but this the case. Information club have released to the press, and quoted by The Times, Nottingham Post and other media.
PS
ReplyDeleteThe Design and Access Statement by Letts Wheeler Architects notes:
"The current building provides 1564m2 (GIA) of space over 3 floors and a semi-basement. The design proposes to increase this by 727m2 to 2291m2".
Having read through their briefing about the plans, the revised building will be 5 floors , plus an extended basement.
Although the building is not a listed building, Rushcliffe Borough Council recognise it as a "non-designated heritage asset".
80 NOT OUT
ReplyDeleteRich - ref your useful figures . At a very quick calculation it appears that the new Pavilion will occupy 50% more space than the current one .
For virtually all future TB ground development the only way is up ! They can hardly expand sideways .
I would imagine it’s been a toss up of either a “ new” Pavilion or increasing the capacity of the un loved William Clarke stand . It’s a pity Notts cant afford to do both .
I suppose large amounts of future funding will depend on the ECB generating many millions by partially flogging off the HINDRED Comp .
Hundreds of millions being bandied about .Notts could certainly use some of that right now!
What's the problem with building-upwards? East Midland Airport have already reported in the planning process, that they have NO OBJECTIONS to proposed new pavilion.
DeleteCertainly no toss up with regard to the Wm.Clarke stand, this Pavilion project has to be done now - other stand refurbs are non priority ATM, but as you say a rich, unlikely, benefactor what about pulling down both the WMC and new ‘freezer’ stands and replacing them with a new triple decker alongside some sort of hotel 🏨 complex ?
DeleteAs long as you don't fly too low, Budgie !
ReplyDeleteI'm Mandy, fly me
DeleteYou must be available for 10 County Championship games - 10CC
DeleteDreadlock Holiday.
DeleteWith all this Pavilion upgrade planned -let’s hope life doesn’t become a minestrone , it certainly needs do be done and it’s not merely art 🖼 for art’s sake